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  • Rant This thing of ours (La Cosa Nostra)
    #21
    @Stella 1977 Ya, he was more respected out of pure fear than any sort of business sense I'm assuming. I can imagine him being worse to deal with than Gotti. One of the smarter things he did was get Vic Amuso to take the top spot so he can use him as a lightning rod... Kinda like what Tony did to Junior.

    I'm sure he was smart enough.. He got to a high place in the pecking order, but he is the opposite of Franzese because he showed everyone just how stupid and reckless he is...

    Another smart thing that Casso did was put the Mafia cops on the payroll. One of the cops Eppolito (the fat one), was just as much a media whore as a celebrity... He got the quiet partner pinched. I think The guy that tried to hit Casso was killed by Eppolito and Caracappa, and after all was said an done, Eppolito went on a talk show (Sally Jessy I think/?) I the guy he killed's mom saw it and reported him... I think that's the gist of how it went down... Big mouths killed the mafia!
    (This post was last modified: 06-03-2019, 03:12 PM by LZA.)
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    #22
    @LZA I agree with you on Big Mouths, but the American Mafia is not dead, not at all. If you read websites and media articles devoted to coverage of La Cosa Nosta, it's apparent they are still active. Now days they are less violent, have more competition from other organized criminal gangs, and face greater pressure from law enforcement, so they are much less powerful than in the past. Modern technology has made it difficult to get away with murder, and crime families like Cosa Nostra don't need that risk.

    The Italian families are different from modern gangs such as MS-13 or the Mexican mafia. The purpose of Italian organized crime is to make money, not to terrorize or battle rivals. Families are forced to lay low after a “hit", which interferes with earning, but DNA evidence is the primary deterrent. With every murder comes “heat", meaning local police and FBI investigations.

    There is a rumor that a mafia associate had to take part in a murder in order to be considered for full membership, but this isn't true. Many Mafioso have been made without committing murder. As I stated earlier, making money, or “earning" is the very reason for the existence of Cosa Nostra. The quickest path to becoming a made man is making money for the family. The American Mafia still kill people off, but they do their best to make the murders look like suicide or ‘death by natural causes”. The famous mob “whacks” of the past drew way too much scrutiny, and forced the FBI to make a show of arresting a few people so that nobody would get suspicious that, God forbid, the FBI is in collusion with organized crime. In the 1970’s murder requires a gun and no witnesses… in the 21st century murder requires months of planning and preparation and even the most careful of Hitmen often get caught these days due to DNA evidence and the fact most major cities are gridded out with CCTV. The 2013 murder of Michael Meldish, truly high-profile whacking, resulted in the entire hierarchy of the Lucchese Family (the charming organization depicted in the movie Goodfellas) being indicted for murder and racketeering two years ago.

    @LZA OZ was a great show but unrealistic. In real life nobody in prison will ever mess with guy like Peter Schibetta. I have told you about my husband's friend a non-LCN Italian American who spent 11 years in federal prison from 2006 until 2017. One year in MDC Brooklyn, 3 years in Big Sandy, 3 years in Hazelton, 4 years in Fort Dix nj. My husband's friend says that in federal prisons Italian American mobsters are still respected and feared and other inmates prefer to be friend of mobsters. He says that Big Sandy did not have a large LCN population, so the mob guys he met were pretty low key, didn't look for trouble and were pretty much left alone but at Hazelton there was a larger LCN population with several lifers, and they were much more involved in prison politics. He says that in Hazelton mobsters protected him because he is Italian. He says that in Hazelton mobsters are the ones that offer protection to other people not the other way around. He says Fort Dix had all kinds of Italian American mobsters, wise guys, wanna-be's, and east coast type dudes. There are the New York guys, the New Jersey ones, and the Philly ones and they are running Fort Dix.

    He says that it's always the weakest guys that get the worst treatment in prison and that If you're a well respected criminal on the outside, then chances are you'll be respected in prison. Mobsters are street guys, so other inmates aren't going to mess around with them . And definitely not if the mobster is a member of a powerful family. Peter Schibetta is Made Man member of a powerful family. In real life nobody in prison will ever mess with guy like Peter Schibetta. My husband's friend says that the targets in prison are the most vulnerable people, the mobsters especially the New York ones still have much power outside prison. Also my husband's friend says that Big Sandy did not have a large LCN population, so the mob guys he met were pretty low key but no one really messed with them and and that most inmates looked up to them like a kid looks up to a ball player and thinks "that's what I want to be" and that they were considered original gangsters by black inmates.

    Also he says that blacks are extorting and bullying weak vulnerable unprotected white guys. My husband's friend says that from what he saw in the places he was locked up in black prisoners are all about that rape shit or the consensual sex shit in between the black population and that most prison rapes in the places he was locked up in were committed by black men on white men. He says that in Hazelton all the DC Blacks gang members have their sissies/prison wives that they kick it with. I am not saying that it's like that all over United States I'm strictly speaking from what my husband's friend saw in the places he was locked up in. Things could be different in other prisons. My husband's friend says that most white inmates tend to have an aloof attitude towards other white inmates. He says that Spanish, Asian, Native American and black inmates will help each other no matter what. Also my husband's friend says that in Big Sandy he was ashamed to be white that there most of the white inmates were just universally cunts. He says that Aryan Brotherhood weren't a big presence in Big Sandy, but they were bad enough to make you kind of wish your mother had been raped by black man.

    OZ was a great show but unrealistic. I think the Schibetta thing wasn't great. Wise Guys are so called because they are smart, they plan things properly so they win and the right guys do the job. Why did they attack a powerful physically strong guy like Adebisi with no weapons? It's not the Mafia way of doing things. The PS goes after the Aryans on his own, you'd think he'd learnt his lesson. Adebisi dies several seasons later. At the end, the Homeboys got out of the drug game. Chucky survived to the final season and allied with the Latinos/gays hybrid gang to ran Oz. So the Italians won the war. In real life nobody in prison will ever mess with guy like Peter Schibetta. In the show from wise guy enforcer to PRAG never to rise again . I felt so bad for Peter Schibetta. Got annoyed when I saw him mouthing off to O'riley at the end, knew he was gonna get it for dumb rushed reasons. Also the way they wrote O'reilly made no sense at all. The evil eye, are you fucking kidding me, that is why you kill the son of the former don of the family. They should've let Peter Schibetta get at least one piece of revenge. At least kill Robson's bitch ass. Everyone in this series had their moment to shine except for Peter Schibetta. That kind of bothered me.Never make the same mistake twice. Peter even managed to do it even worse the second time. No brains what so ever. But it is not realistic. There's not one example of LCN mob guys being raped in prison; especially when you consider how many have done time. My friend says that most regular inmates typically show respect to Italian American mobster if not straight-up swing off the guy's balls. No one messed with the LCN guys as far as he saw. Even tho Peter Schibetta started as a privileged son of a mob boss who seemed spoiled and entitled and way over his head...he sort had a lot of substance and became likable. The way he has flashbacks and went through mental breakdowns was interesting. I feel like he could’ve become a major character or main character.

    They really missed out on not working him into a better role after the rape and trauma he went through. He could’ve become like a rogue type of character who takes care of himself. Like a mix of Alvarez and Beecher (traumatized and insane but yet tough and moral). They should’ve made him more sympathetic and have morals and become sort of like a Omar (The Wire) character. But they made him completely insane and ready to kill anyone who Ryan loved instead of just going after the bullies themselves.

    My husband's friend says that status means something in prison and Peter Schibetta had status and people knew it. You think someone’s going to rape a guy who they know is Made who they will get killed for? Sure it’s possible but status holds a lot of weight in prison. No Blood, Crip, Hispanic,Aryan gang member would even touch someone in La Cosa Nostra. They would be dead man walking. And their relatives on the outside? In real life the Mafia woulda whacked Adebisi for Schibetta after that shit he pulled anyway. They would never let disrespect like that go unpunished no matter what. I just think its unrealistic that the Mafia let Adebisi live after beating up Pancamo then raping the "Boss" who was also a former respected bosses son. The mob would never let such a disgraceful disrespectful thing go unpunished. Adebisi woulda got airholed. and Schibetta woulda definitely got disowned by his paizans. Oz is classic, very underrated compared to The Wire etc. But it is unrealistic. It was extremely disappointing to me that Ryan O Reilly never got a dose of his own medicine and nobody killed him. My favourites were Nino Schibetta,Peter Schibetta, Kareem Said, Dino Ortolani,Tobias Beecher, Miguel Alwarez, Enrique Morales and Augustus Hill.

    @LZA Killing off Dino Ortolani in the first frickin episode has to be the biggest mistake in this show's writing. He's an extremely colorful and volatile character to boot, but his rivalry with Ryan O'Reilly would put us viewers constantly on edge. So many missed story opportunities. Ryan O'Reilly has always had an angel sitting on his shoulder. The amount of luck he sails on is outrageous at times. Dino's rivalry might have balanced things quite a bit and wipe that cocky smirk off his face for once. Pancamo was the toughest is because out of all the drug trade leaders, he was the one who seemed like the biggest fighter. I mean, we never really saw Adebisi or Morales (or Redding, Hernandez, etc.) in a fair brawl. Not only that, but for the majority portion of the series, the Italians were in power, and it doesn't matter if Pancamo was gullible. The fact is - nobody dared to up and front mess with him if they weren't another leader. People were afraid to cross him, pure and simple. And he was still alive once the series ended. After he got stabbed by Robson, he just said, "Just give me a band-aid!". Pancamo was the toughest man in Oz.
    (This post was last modified: 06-03-2019, 05:00 PM by Stella 1977.)
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    #23
    That's interesting, I kind f thought Schibetta was like a cross between Carmine Lupertazzi Jr and AJ Soprano... The privileged dimwitted son who could never make it.

    When I watch OZ, I try to remember that it was written for the general public that doesn't really know or research the real-life circumstances. It was a great show, but it took a lot of artistic license with the facts in order to drum up the drama. A real-life OZ would be much more boring... As you said, it would be misery, Unprotected white beatdowns, and ass rape as a part of a daily process instead of a horrifying thing. Not to mention people walking around zooted out on drugs.

    Dino was a cool character, but I think he was a victim of an interesting character that had to be killed to establish the intensity of the show... And I agree with you about Ryan, I liked him but he got away with too much. I think they wrote him as almost unkillable since there weren't any Irish mafia/gang members for the show. OZ tried to represent organized crime for all groups (Italians, Ayrans, brothers, Spanish, and Irish,) but Ryan was really the only one, so he couldn't get killed off. You can see where the disconnect from reality ends and the storyline starts.

    Kinda like the Goodfellas story that Billy batts got killed for insulting Tommy... Much more interesting than the real life story of some guy that just got out of prison and was killed for wanting his racquets back.

    I think Chucky Pancamo was my favorite LCN member. Nino was probably the best real-life representative of what a real-life boss would have acted. Adebisi represented the lifers that just don't give a fuck. I'd hate to say it, but Beecher would have gotten killed IRL... Once he went mad, they would have taken him out... Like you said the mob reacting to Peter, the Ayrans would not allow a prag to go over on their boss.

    OZ was actually before Sopranos and I think the precursor of how good the Sopranos could be, but I agree with you that the reality of real prison life wasn't there... Most actors from OZ went to either Sopranos or Law and Order.

    When your husband's friend said, "you wish your mother was raped by a black man" what did that mean? Because the Aryans were so evil that you wish you were other than white? I'll never be able to survive prison since I'm not Italian and would probably be a lonely white boy. Real life jail is more horrifying than interesting, which is why the movies stray from actual facts.
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    #24
    @LZA EXACTLY, My husband's friend says that in Big Sandy the Aryans weren't a big presence, but they were so evil that you wish you were other than white.

    @LZA My husband's friend says that Big Sandy is on top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere. He says that many of the people there don't deserve to be in such an isolated and heartbreaking place. He says that inmates there were always fighting, rioting and stuff like that. They were on constant lockdowns. Very tense and volatile atmosphere in Big Sandy from what he say's. They were constantly going on lockdowns for fightings, stabbings, rapes etc. He said he hated that place with a passion all the fighting and stuff going on. BIG SANDY had a lot of DC blacks gang members who love to start riots and trouble.
    (This post was last modified: 06-04-2019, 02:35 AM by Stella 1977.)
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    #25
    @Stella 1977 Wow, sounds awful. I'm curious to know what you think. You say this is the opinion of your husband's friend, but If there is a place with a collection of people that are capable of fighting, stabbing, raping and rioting, don't you have to kind of take solace in the fact they are doing it in a place located on top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere?

    If I ever did anything (must be something hardcore) to land in a place like that, I'd WANT to be in solitary or constant lockdown since at least then I'd be safe. I'm sure he hated it because he was there, but some people need to go to a place like that... Even some mafia members... Like Gaspipe, the way he lived his life and killed freely he should be miserable. Also, even if he is respected, he doesn't have the same respect/fear as if he did when he was on the outside. I'm sure the fact that his "legend" is being buried in obscurity is giving him a slow death. Can you imagine his pain from going to being a Mafia superstar, to just a respected guy in hell, but really on one out of many? Maybe he's such a psycho he doesn't actually care.

    Ya, from things I've watched/read the AB can be the most vicious people on Earth. In all seriousness, White people can be responsible for the most heinous crimes known to man... The Black and Mexicans can be vicious too, (all people can be the same), but there are more whites that do crazy shit, Like Dahmer who kills and eats people... Blacks and Mexicans can be violent, but with my limited opinion on it, my guess is that it may be just business... Kinda like the mafia... For the most part, the theory is that killing is just a part of the business for the most part. You know, gang survival...

    The AB seems to take actual pleasure in being violent... Maybe partly because the rep of that makes them more feared and that makes life easier... Kinda like in Breaking Bad when they thought Jessie was gruesome enough to drop the ATM on the head of that tweaker, he gained a lot of respect out of fear from that. So maybe the AB does that as part of a business sense to make people think twice... OR, they are just so incredibly stupid it gives them false craziness, you know, not like the Iceman who was actually calculating, but dumb rednecks who don't know better and think its cool to do this shit. Then again. maybe these people are just going nuts doing things they don't want but realize it's either them or the others...
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    #26
    @LZA Actually mu husband's friend tried to think of the Big Sandy lockdowns as a way to keep him safe from all the fighting. That seemed to help him threw it. When he was locked in his cell, the only inmate he needed to contend with was his cellie and he was safe.
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    #27
    @LZA Do you know that Anthony (Gaspipe) Casso started a fight with Salvatore (Big Sal) Miciotta in special prison for federal witnesses on New Years eve 1996/1997. But Casso without a gun was useless and the big Miciotta beated him. Anthony (Gaspipe) Casso, made a billy club out of a rolled-up magazine to carry out a frenzied New Year's Eve attack on 350-pound Salvatore (Big Sal) Miciotta. The fight broke out after dinner as Miciotta, 50, was playing cards with other protected inmates. Casso, "came up behind Big Sal" on an elevated cellblock walkway carrying a tightly rolled magazine in his hands, leaned through a railing and started beating Miciotta on his head. Since this was not a very efficient weapon and Big Sal is a very large man, this did not render Big Sal helpless. Casso, the former Luchese underboss, is only 5-foot-8 and 165 pounds. Miciotta reached through a walkway railing, grabbed Casso by the shirt, pulled him through the railing, and beat the daylights out of Gaspipe until the guards got him off Gaspipe. I think that Casso start the fight because he thought that because he was an underboss and Miciotta a simple soldier,he wouldn't respond to the provocations. Casso thought bad. https://www.nydailynews.com/amp/archives...e-1.751210
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    #28
    (06-04-2019, 12:50 PM)Stella 1977 Wrote:  @LZA Actually mu husband's friend tried to think of the Big Sandy lockdowns as a way to keep him safe from all the fighting. That seemed to help him threw it. When he was locked in his cell, the only inmate he needed to contend with was his cellie and he was safe.

    That would be my thought too... They say people go crazy in solitary, but fuck it, I'd be HAPPY!!! After my divorce, I moved to a ghetto type city for a few months. 2 of my best friends there was a guy from Philly, and a guy from Brooklyn. The would tell me there are poor parts of town that's just like jail... The Philly guy said guys would rob people, take their $$ and their clothes. And people were too poor to leave so it was like the city was a jail. They were trapped in their neighborhood. My friend from Brooklyn was cool but different. The best way I can describe how he looked was a quiet version of Adebisi. He was about 6'3, 215 of solid muscle and he didn't lift much. He was doing 8 years in a NY prison (I believe it was Attica) for drug dealing.

    He was an otherwise good, reserved guy that kept to himself, but his adebisi side would come out when anyone would try to talk to him. This guy never talks or brags, but after a few beers he would open up... The scary thing is He would state this matter of factly. If he got a new cell mate, he'd tell the guy "Look, don't bother talking, you are not going to be in here for that long. You should tell the COs you need a new cell before sundown or we were going to have a problem. "

    He said after a while the COs would just not put him with anyone... He'd never tell me what he did, when I asked, he'd just say, "whatever I had to". I have no reason to believe the guy was lying.

    He was a good guy but hard to get to know. He was sensitive, he said most people in Brooklyn are. It's a different way of life. I would joke with my dumb sense of humor and he actually got mad. I was baffled. But then we'd talk and once he saw I meant no harm, we were cool. I honestly told him "HAHAHAH You're full of shit" that was enough to insult him. I told him in the city and culture of goofball white boys I grew up with that type of joking was normal. He explained that in NY... Brooklyn where he was, your rep is everything and everyone tries to get at you, so you react a certain way for everyone.

    We enjoyed learning cultural difference from each other. I have good empathy when I apply it, My mistake is just assuming people enjoy the same humor as me. When he got my humor and was assured I was on his side, we became great friends. I remember saying something to him after and he said "just to let you know, if we were in Brooklyn you made 5 statements that would have probably gotten you shot"

    Another thing, I'm back in my hometown. When shit goes down everyone flocks and looks. Where he lives, they all ho in the house and "know nothing" I saw a teenager get shot at the end of my street and ran down... I heard Steve Screaming "get your ass back here!!!" I didn't realize how I fucked up. I guess once shit goes down, there can be people that stick around to monitor, and if the saw me being nosy, they could have gotten me too. I could have brought trouble to the apartment building . He also mentioned not to talk to the biker guy since he was in a gang, he said all I had to do was sasy the wrong thing and I would never be seen again...

    Point to all of this: I would NEVER survive prison. I'm just not aware of that life. I didn't know about Casso's beatdown but can kind of equate his experience to what would happen to me... He became clueless since on the outside he was powerful and had guns. So he was out of his element too since it's all mono e mono there. He still thought he was underboss... I could see myself doing something stupid, and not knowing what I did...Those few months I learned a lot of life lessons... Life is different for all those guys. If I was mobbed up knowing what I know now, I'd probably crack a joke to another made guy in from of other and show disrespect. I'm too stupid to be a criminal TBH... To me, that life is HELL!!!
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    #29
    Another thing that's still in debate (although I'm not sure why). People STILL thing Tony didn't die at the finale? Maybe they are in denial...

    The blackout was from Tony's perspective. It's the way the ending was shot. There is no question. Tony got shot in front of his family by NY in retaliation for killing Phil in front of his wife and grandkids.
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    #30
    @LZA I agree with you. Everytime the bell rings, we see what Tony see. People walking into the restaurant. So the last part after the bell .. he saw nothing. Tony absolutely dies at the end. You never see Meadow come through the door. You hear the bell ring on the door, Tony looks up, and then cut to black. He never saw it coming, just like Bobby said. Also, the camera deliberately shows the guy in the Members Only jacket look towards Tony twice before going to the bathroom. He did it and Tony got caught completely off guard.
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