Rant This thing of ours (La Cosa Nostra)

[LZA]

Anything mob related here... Movies, stories, theories, etc.

I've always been fascinated with the mob even though they can be evil people. It's always been a part of American history. Post any thougtsyou have... I'll post a few topics that I have for starters.

The Sopranos was loosely based on the real live DeCalvacante family in NJ.  Some similarities were the bosses both lived in mansions, and the NY 5 families didn't really consider them an actual equal.

From what I read in Goodfellas, Tommy Devito was based on Tommy Desimone, who in real life, was really a gun-slinging cowboy, and was killed on orders from John Gotti after finding out about Billy Bats and A guy named Foxy that he killed earlier. Billy didn't die from insulting Tommy, but Jimmy Burke (Conway in the movie) wanted to keep his racquets he acquired from him when he went away.  BIg Paulie (Vario) OK'd it because in real life he was having an affair with Henry's wife Karen, and Tommy tried to rape her while Henry was in jail.

Mob Captain Roy Demeo was such a ruthless killer that other mobsters didn't want to go after him (including Gotti) when he got out of control causing heat for the family. It was his own crew that turned on him.

(This post was last modified: 05-30-2019, 07:14 PM by LZA.)

[Stella 1977]

@LZA Italian American Mafia is not as powerful as they were in their heyday, but still the most dominant crime group in the USA Today.

Originally there were 26 La Cosa Nostra families, today maybe half that number, the smaller families became crews of larger ones due to loss of membership.

The issue with the Mob from the gov’s point of view is that they have a very solid hierarchical structure, with people in place to step in when someone gets taken out etc.

When a sub culture of any kind is well ingrained into a societies culture, it’s very hard to get rid of it. La Cosa Nostra is over 100 years old in the USA, they infiltrated legitimate institutions and became very much a part of the communities they operate in.

It will never be like the 1970’s for them again, but the game is far from over and the FBI knows that. But they are still very active. Especially in the east coast such as New York City, New Jersey, Florida, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island. The families include the Five Families of New York, The Decavalcante Crime Family of New Jersey, Patriarca Crime Family of Boston, Massachusetts and Providence, Rhode Island and Philadelphia Crime Family.

[wildcard]

I have always been fascinated by the mafia. I read all of Mario Puzo's mob stories when I was a kid, right after I sneaked into the living room and watch The Godfather Part I while my parents were asleep.

Still to this day, I can hardly scroll past one of those mob hit man interviews on YouTube.

Obviously, The Sopranos is my favorite show about the mob, but I'd probably watch almost anything mob related that wasn't a B movie, or worse.

I'm not going to make a list of movies, but I will list a film that doesn't seem all that great on the cover, but is actually a pretty damn good mob movie.

Gotti (1996)

Directed by Robert Harmon. With Armand Assante, Anthony Quinn, William Forsythe, Richard C. Sarafian. John Gotti rises to head the powerful Gambino crime family before being convicted in 1992 of racketeering and murder.

It really does look like a stinker from the cover, but I caught it in a hotel on a business trip and found it very interesting and enjoyable.

[LZA]

When a sub culture of any kind is well ingrained into a societies culture, it’s very hard to get rid of it. La Cosa Nostra is over 100 years old in the USA, they infiltrated legitimate institutions and became very much a part of the communities they operate in.

I think because they were truly organized and had a sense of what they thought of as "honor" which is what kept them going in the beginning. Old timers from the old country who truly knew what it meant to keep your mouth shut. It was so ingrained that to talk was unheard of... It was almost like a form of brainwashing. The old-timers like Gambino or Vincent Gigante who actually set the standard since they lived their life that way.

Kids nowadays didn't grow up like that but try to emulate it, but when facing time are quick to break the rule for self-preservation. Some cases they are just punks who are just wannabe badasses who want the rep but can't do real jail time... BUT, there are some who realize that the life has no real honor, and decide not to protect those who would throw them under the bus. The older the mafia got, the more people realize it's not an actual family that takes care of their own, but a business full of sociopaths who don't care about anything but themselves.

Henry Hill was kind of a punk who turned on them because he couldn't handle dealing with the consequences... Look at the way he continued to live his life afterward. However, (and I'm not singing his praises by any means). The only real reason Sammy the bull flipped is because he saw how Gotti was setting him up to take the fall for everything. People call him a rat, and maybe he was, but Gotti was opening his mouth just as much ( just not to the feds directly)... In the dog eat dog culture Gotti was a victim of someone of his own kind and Sammy out psycho'ed him. If I was being set up like that, I'd probably do the same thing.

They say Gotti was the one to bring it down since he was about the attention, but that's not the only reason... Joe Columbo also brought undue attention and he was a founding father so it wasn't just the fame...

I'm not going to make a list of movies, but I will list a film that doesn't seem all that great on the cover, but is actually a pretty damn good mob movie.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116441/


It really does look like a stinker from the cover, but I caught it in a hotel on a business trip and found it very interesting and enjoyable.

People in life have been quoted as saying that is the most accurate portrayal of the mob situation...That's one of my favorites too. The John Travolta movie sucked because it was heavily influenced by Gotti Jr, who was completely full of himself... That movie put jr in a hero's light so it was not unbiased. Travolta's portrayal was not the only problem...

[Stella 1977]

@LZA They are still functioning as we speak. People still bet on sports and gamble, purchase drugs, and seek to borrow more money than they can afford. Italian-American organized crime groups are still active in the Northeast and Midwest in particular.

Arguably the smarter mobsters have more or less gone legitimate and/or reduced their visible criminal footprint. Scott Burnstein has made compelling arguments that the Detroit organization has been successful in doing this.

[LZA]

@LZA They are still functioning as we speak. People still bet on sports and gamble, purchase drugs, and seek to borrow more money than they can afford. Italian-American organized crime groups are still active in the Northeast and Midwest in particular.

Arguably the smarter mobsters have more or less gone legitimate and/or reduced their visible criminal footprint. Scott Burnstein has made compelling arguments that the Detroit organization has been successful in doing this.

You know what I heard (can't remember where I heard it though), you know those dateline phone numbers where you can "meet interesting singles in your area"? I heard those were mob run... NOt sure how true it is..

Italian mafia is under the microscope, which (IMHO) allows other things like the Russian mafia to flourish more. As long as people need illegal services, there will be someone to provide them.

[Stella 1977]

@LZA The Italian Mafia is bigger in North America, South America, Western Europe and Australia. Russian Mafia is bigger in Eastern Europe (especially Russia), Asia and Africa. The Italian Mob is quite larger than the Russian Mafia in the USA at the moment, and people are also fascinated with Italian gangsters because of movies like The Godfather, Goodfellas, Casino etc. In America there is a larger Italian-American population. I agree with you that La Cosa Nostra, at least in places like NYC,New Jersey, Philadelphia, Boston, Detroit and Chicago, is most definitely alive but it's quite crippled. But they are still active but low-key, both in the US and Canada. They still have quite a bit of Authority on the entire East Coast operations. Back in the days the Italian crime families had the monopoly of illegal activities throught the US, with important political allies, nowadays they are just one of many players in the organized crime game.

[LZA]

I remember hearing something about the mafia in Canada, who would actually work with biker gangs.

There were many factors... Maybe back then the government didn't realize what was going on... Now they are all caught up as far as scams. Also you mentioned the political and union involvement which they don't have anymore.

For example, Michael Franzese and the gas tax scam... He took advantage in a loophole in how they collected tax for selling gasoline and was making 6-8 million a WEEK!!! He was the highest earner since Capone. He is fascinating. He is a pre-med student who could have been a legit millionaire as a CEO of any company because of his smarts and business sense. HIs dad was a former underboss and actually kinda turned on him. I can listen to his stories all day.

Here is talking about how he an Don King would fix fights, and how Al Sharpton was a "gun for hire" as far as doing business... I knew Sharpton was as dirty as the rest. I HATE how when people make racial faux-pas they have to go to him. He is NO authority on anything righteous.

Another person who knows more about mafia is President Trump!! Being a NY construction tycoon, he had to have dealt with the mob as far as construction unions... People joke about Trump making sure Sammy the bull was under the jail since Sammy I'm sure has dirt on the Donald. The mob was so far reaching back then... The mafia is still alive, but nothing compared to the grip they had back then.

Here is Sammy confirming his hand in it:

[LZA]

Here is another doc I found that I haven't seen before.

Richard The Iceman Kuklinsi on a show about the mob.

To keep it on topic, because he wasn't a mobster that was an evil killer (like Demeo and his crew), he was a evil monster that worked for the mob, is to bring attention how ruthless these guys could be. Think about it, these guys associated and worked with him. That goes to show how bad some of them could be. Sammy the bull had 19 murders, and Gaspipe had countless... Some of these mobsters could be just as creepy as serial killers like Gacy, Bundy, Kuklinski and the like. Some are probably WORSE.. Kuklinski and Demeo knew each other well.. Demeo was even in the Iceman movie. Thinks Kuklinski said can't be 100% proven as accurate...

Check it out if you are in the mood to waste some time

(This post was last modified: 06-02-2019, 05:02 PM by LZA.)

[wildcard]

@LZA, did you ever get the feeling he was putting on in the interviews? I don't mean to suggest that he is lying, but I mean the way he repeats phrases like, "It didn't affect me at all," and "it was nothing to me"

I don't know, I guess I always kind of felt like he loved talking about himself and sounding hard.