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    #21
    (12-04-2011, 01:13 PM)KARPACKIE Wrote:  @ alhs06 are you an Occupy Activist?? thanks

    ok from now on let's keep this thread for Occupy Groups only/MOD


    If you are from an Occupy Group/s please state which,thank you,we would like to hear your views
    For lack of a better term, yes I suppose. I agree with the original premise anyway. I did not camp, but have been actively supporting it through several hundred posts & threads I placed in their forums.
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    #22
    excellent stuff and thanks for the answer,bring a few over with you the next time Wink
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    #23
    I'll do my best Big Grin
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    #24
    Also if you want to join the pit group do so through your user cp,Group Memberships,Pit Fighters
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    #25
    Yes, alhs, when one user calls another stupid or ignorant based on a very tiny amount of knowledge about that person (eg use of apostrophes), the user so called is most likely to consider the other user a bit of a know-it-all wanker.

    Get the point?

    Now, if you'll employ some insult-free debating techniques, perhaps I'll change my opinion (of either you or the subject). While it's clear to anyone with a brain that the distribution of wealth in many countries, particularly the USA, is ludicrously uneven and it's also clear that a few large corporations -- in collusion with the banking sector -- manipulate the markets and taxation systems to ensure that their wealth continues to grow at an inordinate rate, it does seem a shame that those who conduct the Occupy protests have not always been the best ambassadors for genuine reform. This is the same situation that arises when the environment is championed by people who refuse to bathe -- the media (these days, a gigantic part of the large corporation problem) will always seize on unsavoury individuals and allow them to stand for the whole movement in the eyes of the public. Similarly, trade unionists who employ the Che Guevara brand or dress their kiddies with hammer-and-sickle t-shirts are making their own cause seem "other" to the general populace and therefore doing far more harm than good.

    At the Occupy Brisbane protests, the majority of the crowd (at least, those that I witnessed) were the "serial protestors", as I've said before -- people who will jump on any protest bandwagon merely to avoid their own social responsibilities. In Australia, our welfare system is entirely different to that in the US -- some of these people have never held a job at all, never paid taxes and certainly never been true victims of corporate greed. I find it difficult to believe that they are sincerely protesting against a system that doesn't exist for them, except as a vague intellectual concept. Of course it is possible to rebel against a situation that exists without experiencing it directly, if it offends a deep moral conviction -- however, I personally would find it difficult to make such a judgment without direct knowledge. For example, for many years I thought that arranged marriages were anathema, until I met people who were in such and heard their stories of how happy they were to have grown up knowing their prospective spouse, how close their bond had become over the years and how much easier it was to have in-laws that got along with one another Smile Of course, not every experience in such a situation is the same, just as not everyone who looks at a capitalist paradigm is going to view it as all good or all evil.

    What concerns me greatly is that the USA has for many years virtually dictated the direction of the world markets -- this has altered somewhat in recent times but still, it was essentially the economic mismanagement of the USA that caused global crashes. That economic mismanagement resulted in a large part from the actions of a "democratically elected" government, which those of us in the rest of the world have no ability to control. Will the Occupy groups reverse the horrific trend of voter apathy? Will the USA finally elect representatives who are not simply looking after their own financial wellbeing?

    I also find it slightly disturbing that the Occupy groups claim to be following the principles of "Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jnr, Tolstoy & Jesus" -- surely that's just throwing up names?
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    #26
    Unless we, as a single citizen, as a nation, as a Global Victim of Political & Financial Fraud wake the "F" up, & do not employee the same type of status quo fantasy thinking of, "removing politician's ABC & replacing them with politician's XYZ will do the trick" we are dooming our personal freedom's but more importantly, exiling our children & grandchildren to a lifetime of insurmountable economic & educational poverty.
    Purging the Politician's will only help a short while, we recently did this in our last 2 general elections here in the states to no avail. Money breeds corruption from the grassroots when not checked, removing it somehow from the political stage would be a start. Then allowing the prosecution of the rampant corruption of the many individuals who blatantly practice it, would then become a possible reality rather than the current sham act placed on the backs of a few sacrificial lambs.
    What you said about Occupy & it's claim to follow certain principles of other's is interesting. Being educated in the movement, & knowing what it's actually about, there by allowing me the security of being able to differentiate my allies from the idiot's who are making said claims, which are then reported by the media or spread word of mouth ...as a supported Occupy point of view, is actually very frustrating. But I shall digress from any more perceived personal affront's as a gesture of respect to you & other's with your similar views.
    I just want to reiterate my point of you or anyone else to research the issues, & don't be a Hater.
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    #27
    (12-04-2011, 03:54 PM)alhs06 Wrote:  What you said about Occupy & it's claim to follow certain principles of other's is interesting.


    That's directly from http://occupybrisbane.org/, not my words or the media's.

    Researching and being aware of the issues is a very different kettle of fish to agreeing or disagreeing with the methods of the protest.

    Marx considered capitalism to be a kind of economic adolescence. Perhaps the current global unrest is a sign that the acquisitive obsessions of this adolescence are no longer satisfying society's requirements and a revolution is, indeed, in the offing. However, protests such as this depend very heavily upon the rights of the individual -- definitions that are very different under Communism, and I have concerns that the Western individual, now he's been let out of his cage, will be exceedingly reluctant to be subsumed for the greater good. Until we develop as a society, global and local, that considers the needs of the many before the needs of the one, these protests still smack a little of "the big boys have taken what's rightfully mine".

    *EDIT: On a quick re-read, I realise that sounds like I think Communism is the only solution to corporate greed. Obviously that's not the case. I'm not suggesting for a moment that anyone who doesn't like the way things are now is a Communist Smile
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