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  • Louis CK Is Trying To Make A Comeback
    #11
    (07-02-2019, 02:52 PM)Plenty O’Toole Wrote:  Why does “the pursuit of happiness” involve him getting to be a celebrity again?

    Because it is all or nothing. Either he is free to pursue his art to wherever it might take him, or he is bound.

    And to directly answer something you've mentioned multiple times, yes, of course people have the right to be offended. It is well within their rights to boycott his work, to speak out against him, and to try to dissuade others. I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish that they would shut the fuck up and let the man live.

    (Also, I am severely biased because I think he is quite possibly one of the greatest comedic geniuses, ever.)
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    #12
    “I just wish they wouldn't. I just wish that they would shut the fuck up and let the man live.”

    People shutting the fuck up is what created an industry where people like him could abuse with impunity. You already have the man’s existing body of work to enjoy. I think in the end you have to decide what’s more important to you, women’s safety and security in pursuing their dreams, or your favourite problematic celebrity getting to make more work.

    For fans it’s an issue of not being able to enjoy more comedy specials. For young women in the industry it’s an issue of not being abused and silenced and prevented from pursuing THEIR art.
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    #13
    Ya, I didn't really realize that he actually forced people to watch either... I thought his actions were more pathetic than devious... MOre like a fetish than an actual crime...

    If that's the case he should have been charged. But I still think he should be allowed to try to live his life. As @Plenty O’Toole said, the masses will be the judge on if he can or not.

    But as an example, Mike Tyson was CONVICTED of rape and was applauded for making a comeback. OJ is on Twitter now. Mike seemed to do better at rebuilding his rep while OJ is (rightfully) still getting it shoved up his ass... Those were different times.

    CK doing what he did when he did may be causing some confusion here... NOw that everyone is so off the rails crazy with victimizing, and the fake news culture. CK did this at a time in my life where really nothing in the news can be trusted... Cavanaugh was convicted in the public eye before his trial... People knocking over GAmestops for not using the terms that they want... The English language is bastardized and even kids are allowed to do tranny shows...This shit is getting crazy. some in the LGBTQ feel since they are victims, and they feel they can do anything without repercussions since they are perceived victims while those "with privilege" are automatically guilty...

    That's not my excuse, but maybe my reason for not really believing 100% in the story about him. TBH for every story that says one thing, there is a story that says another. Cosby was convicted... Weinstein was alleged BUT the evidence is so overwhelming (like OJ) I can't believe it didn't happen. Michael Richards was caught on tape being an asshole...

    The evidence against CK is not that overwhelming... If it was, I'd have no problem shunning him. I'd feel comfortable knowing that like OJ, whatever he tried would fail. But in this day and age with public opinion convicting/condemning ... I have to put my faith in innocent until proven guilty. Until I have undeniable proof, I have to say he deserves the right to his life as he can... Judging him by saying he doesn't need to be rich and famous takes away from the American dream. Being rich and famous should only be revoked with undeniable proof of him not deserving it...I don't have all the facts to do that yet...

    I can certainly see your point, and would even agree if I was more convinced... My thoughts are really not to trust anything... But I changed my mind about OJ when facts became clear, and he was acquitted...
    (This post was last modified: 07-02-2019, 03:27 PM by LZA.)
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    #14
    (07-02-2019, 03:22 PM)Plenty O’Toole Wrote:  People shutting the fuck up is what created an industry where people like him could abuse with impunity.

    You've got me there.

    (07-02-2019, 03:22 PM)Plenty O’Toole Wrote:  I think in the end you have to decide what’s more important to you, women’s safety and security in pursuing their dreams, or your favourite problematic celebrity getting to make more work.

    You've got me there.

    But...this isn't just a woman's problem. Terry Crews recently put himself in the hot seat to testify about an executive fondling him at a dinner or something. I know what you are saying...and you're right. But, being a really weird guy, I have sympathy for really weird guys.

    I, however, still feel the same way. I just wish they would let him come back because I am certain that his greatest work is yet to come. The good news is that most artists thrive on everything going to shit, so maybe in his absence, he is writing some killer material. In fact, I know he is. That performance at the cellar was dope as fuck.

    (07-02-2019, 03:22 PM)LZA Wrote:  Ya, I didn't really realize that he actually forced people to watch either... I thought his actions were more pathetic than devious... MOre like a fetish than an actual crime...

    I still don't feel like we should be assuming that is true. If you read the article, it is purposely vague and never actually says it was about CK. Maybe that seems naive on my part, but the listed article was written in an editorial style, so it would have been completely appropriate for the author to throw in a "but ya know it was him" somewhere. The wording itself (in the quote I posted above) leaves you wondering if it was him or Stanhope.

    I would say, lets hold off on judgement for any stuff that he hasn't admitted to or has not been proven (all the rest of it.)
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    #15
    (07-02-2019, 03:51 PM)Wildcard Wrote:  I still don't feel like we should be assuming that is true. ...

    I would say, lets hold off on judgement for any stuff that he hasn't admitted to or has not been proven (all the rest of it.)

    That was the point of my post I guess... If I get undeniable proof, I'll have no problem shunning him. But with the way the news/info culture is now... I can't believe everything I read as I read it. Wait until it's proven... News articles tend to lie/omit stuff about everything and everyone...
    (This post was last modified: 07-02-2019, 04:28 PM by LZA.)
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    #16
    True. I can separate the art from the artist, though.

    Like with Cosby, fuck him and everything, but he was a great standup. Plain and simple, it takes nothing away from the show, for me. Not like I was ever a huge fan of the show, but I did watch it a lot growing up.

    Or with Kevin Spacey. Pretty sure that he is the worst kind of person, but I still love his work and will continue to enjoy it.

    That all was leading up to saying that I really don't imagine Louis CK to be a "good guy." I honestly think that he is likely an arrogant asshole. He also seems like the type of guy to make you feel good about yourself and then talk shit about you behind your back. I'm just saying this so you know I don't hold him in some sort of special place of honor.

    It's just that in my lifetime, I've never seen someone so amazing. Bill Burr is fucking close, and I love Norm, but letting CK's talent go to waste would be a travesty. Then again, I will be feeling like shit if he comes back and then does something way worse...fuck, idk.
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    #17
    @wildcard - “But, being a really weird guy, I have sympathy for really weird guys.”

    I actually know what you mean here. I really like HP Lovecraft and sympathise with his weird, lonely life, even though he was disgustingly racist (not just in the context of his time).

    But here’s the thing: being weird and being an abuser are not mutually inclusive. That said, based on what you’ve said about CK it seems like your perspective is that he was a creep without being a monster a la Cosby and Weinstein, so I’m guessing you’re a bit freer with your sympathy as a result.
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    #18
    (07-03-2019, 03:03 PM)Plenty O’Toole Wrote:  That said, based on what you’ve said about CK it seems like your perspective is that he was a creep without being a monster a la Cosby and Weinstein, so I’m guessing you’re a bit freer with your sympathy as a result.

    That's my attitude, but I could be dead wrong. Believe it or not, I actually read what you and @LZA wrote. I started to realize that my driving motivation was pretty selfish.

    Don't get me wrong, I stand by what I said, he is either innocent or he is guilty. If he is innocent, then let the man live.

    But, I guess he absolutely could be a monster. Like, serial killers don't start off murdering entire families. There are usually some tortured animals, bullying, or something in their past. Please Louis, don't make me regret loving you so much!!! Beg
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    #19
    (07-03-2019, 03:34 PM)Wildcard Wrote:  Don't get me wrong, I stand by what I said, he is either innocent or he is guilty. If he is innocent, then let the man live.

    That's the bottom line. All else is just opinion... And just because someone is convicted or not, doesn't mean guilty or innocent IRL (ex: OJ or people wrongly convicted), but we have to trust what we have... And again, I thought Louie just jerked off, if there is any truth to the threatening, forcing, or any evil type action, I'll still admit he's a great comic (like OJ was still a great football player), but as a person, he can go fuck himself... I don't want to condemn anyone to hate unless I have cold hard facts...

    If it's true I'll actually hate him more since I'm such a fan... I think that's what makes the Cosby thing that much worse... America's dad is also America's rapist...
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    #20
    (07-03-2019, 05:15 PM)LZA Wrote:  [...]I thought Louie just jerked off, if there is any truth to the threatening, forcing, or any evil type action, I'll still admit he's a great comic (like OJ was still a great football player), but as a person, he can go fuck himself...

    Yeah and the truth is, as much as I talk about Cosby being good, I ain't laid up on the couch watching Ghost Dad or no shit like that. I respect Cosby's talent and work ethic, but to be honest, I don't know that I will ever again go out of my way to watch something he was in.

    To give a more balanced example, I idolize Norm Macdonald. I wish that I could be that funny. If it came out that Norm did something awful, I'd likely hold out hope until the bitter end that he was innocent, but if it were proven true, I would hate him worse than I ever loved him. I can't speak for the world, but when I love an artist of any kind so much that I am vocal and proud about it, their downfall is my embarrassment, in my own weird way.
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