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    #31
    (09-09-2020, 12:51 AM)Stella 1977 Wrote:  @LZA Sammy was looking out for Sammy and his narrative about it being John's fault is just his excuse for what he did. He didn't only rat on john but 30 other mobsters that had nothing to with the gambino family. I think he justified why he ratted on john, just not the other mobsters

    I kinda think it was John's fault in a lot of ways. If it wasn't for John's big mouth on the tapes, they wouldn't have been in that mess. Ya, Sammy made himself out to be a saint, but it sounded like he had no choice (if everything he said was 100% truthful). As far as the other guys, I think once Sammy flipped the FBI wanted everything and everyone he knew or the deal wouldn't stick. At that point Sammy didn;t care about anyone else but himself.

    Didn't Franszese say John on his worst day was better than Sammy on his best day? Sammy is a stone Sociopath, thats for sure!
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    #32
    @LZA Stop trying to justify his cowardice. He helped kill a successful boss who liked him without the approval of the Commission. He held umbrellas and opened doors for Gotti. He killed at least 19 people. He couldn't stand being locked up and so he ratted. He set up a drug ring when he got out (after less than five years in prison) and did 20 years. John Gotti wasn't talking to the police on those tapes. He had no idea the room in which he was letting off steam was bugged.
    Sammy was nothing but a rat, and every time he looks in the mirror he is constantly reminded of that fact.
    For all Gotti's faults, he was a stand up guy to the end and I admire him for that.
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    #33
    @Stella 1977 NOt sure if "cowardice" is the right word for Sammy. Self-serving, POS, sociopath... maybe, but regardless if John felt he was right in killing Castellano, he wasn't. He did not get approval (Vinnie the Chin and Gaspipe Casso took exception). John was just as in the wrong, and Sammy was the attack dog.

    Sammy was the earner and John was probably a bit jealous, which is why he blew off steam. John had to flip the bird to the government with his flashy ways. I know Carlo Gambino would not have approved. Sammy disapproved but bent for his master like a good boy. I bet Sammy would have taken those years if he didn;t feel like his friend turned on him and fed hi to the dogs..

    That's when sammy's criminal POS mind took over and flipped... If the tables were turned, one thing I know is John would never have ratted. In a way John was too much of a gangster to do so. Sammy seemed to have more insight and more of an appreciation for Cosa nostra and F-ed him before he got f-ed.

    JOhn couldn;t help but be John, which broke the rules of omerta... But Sammy flipping as a conscious decision was worse, ut because he felt betrayed. Like the old saying, there is no honor amongst criminals.

    PS:i'm going by sammys side... which is weird to defend him but I'm sure if that's what he truly believes then I can see his side of it.

    I honestly think as smart as Sammy can be, he is too stupid to be a coward...like you said, he went right back out, probably knowing if he got caught he'd get the book thrown at him. Like an act of courage out of stupidity and not bravery. When you think you have nothing to lose, you say F-it... He knew he coulda been killed while flipping. so he wasn't brave but wasn't cowardly either.

    As much as Sammy may have been a selfish prick, Johns huge ego was to blame as well... It was a witches brew of these issues that caused the downfall... John may have been a better guy, but as boss, he was no Gambino r even Vinnie the chin.... And I put Gravano on the same self serving savage scale as a Scarfo or Casso... The whole thing was doomed
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