Confederate Flag

[Mark]

Why do people insist on hating the confederate flag? I'm not ignorant and I realize that some people view it as a symbol of racism and slavery, but the 'rebel' flag is as much a symbol of my people and heritage as any other banner or emblem used. My southern American forbears fought and died by the rebel flag and although I personally don't agree with everything they fought for, I certainly do not think they were all bad.

Someone once said(I don't remember who) that history is written by the winner. That could not be more true in the case of the American Civil War. The Union(northerners) wound up victorious over the Rebels(southerners) and because of that they were able to dictate the perception of the rebel soldier.

Most people think that the Civil war was fought over slavery, but that was only one issue in an ever-growing list of things that the US government were trying to control. It all came down to state's rights to govern themselves.

We lost the Civil war of course, but some southerners still hold on to their rebel roots as a way of remembering that we should all be free to do as we please without 'big brother' stepping in and putting us under his huge, tyrannical thumb.

[2010kaiser]

History is written by the victors (like you, for the life of me i can't remember who wrote that quote).
More than likely the victor
Like yourselves, here in Ireland we have two "official" flags:
1. The "tri-colour". flag of the Republic Of Ireland.
2. The "Union Jack". Flag of the UK.

I won't go into history, meaning, subtle variations etc or we would be here all year

Here in Ireland, conditioning over 800yrs+ moulds generations to "take sides". Most don't have a clue.
I identify with both communities.
Their feelings of alienation. Their fears of being forgotten. Their fear of their ancestory being forgotten. Etc etc.

Today. IMO we are starting to embrace and attempting to understand each other. Emphatise.
It's taken a long time but were slowly getting there.
For so long we've focused on our differences with cathastrophic consequences to our loved ones.
Now, at last, i feel we're trying to find our similarities (Which are huge).
"Flag poles are where we hang our children to wrap them in our flag"

Author. Unknown

[Mark]

History is written by the victors (like you, for the life of me i can't remember who wrote that quote).
More than likely the victor

I larffed

[LannisterHater]

Mark, it is, as you say perception. Most of it a misconception of the truth behind a war that was faught because a gigantic pissing contest started over who really knows what. Slavery is bad. The Civil War emancipated the slaves and that became the focal point of the winning side. The Union needed the south. End of story.
A lot of bad pub also comes from hard headed bigits that use the rebel flag as their emblem. Its a case of a few bad eggs spoiling the bunch. Although you and I can see the historical and ancestral signifigance of the confederate flag, others only see the misconception and the few bad eggs.

[2010kaiser]

This is just this minute being posted on the BBC website:

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

Irish Soldiers Who Hid Their Medals

The Irish Parliament is under pressure to issue pardon to Irish...

I feel it's relavent to thisthread

[Leanne]

If it's any consolation to you, my son collects flags and he's got a Confederate flag on his bedroom roof I don't consider it a symbol of slavery at all. It might surprise you, but people outside the US know that 90% of the reasons for the Civil War were economic and other political factors besides slavery.

I think flags are a bit like words -- it's all about the context and who's using them. Some people can't see past the fact that the censorship bureau and associated grannies tell them "fuck" is a bad word. What they fail to realise is that it's a word with many connotations and significant cultural history -- it can be entirely inoffensive when it's used by someone who uses it in everyday speech, with no intent to offend or shock. It is a conglomeration of sounds, from the vernacular of the Saxon people, a word to set the common man aside from the oppression of an unjust nobility (well, maybe that's taking it a little far, but still... it might be...). But it also has the power to offend and shock if that is its intended use. Certain elements have taken your flag and insisted that it stands for something that offends a great many people, therefore in their hands it has one single connotation that overshadows every other.

In Glasgow Old Firm derbies between the "enemy" football teams Celtic and Rangers, flags are used to rile the opposition -- Celtic fans will carry the Irish tricolour, Rangers fans will aggressively display the Union Jack. Despite the fact that they're all Scottish, just to piss off the Celtic fans the Rangers will sing "God Save the Queen" and be overly English, and the Celtic fans will go nuts with Irish folk songs. This sounds kinda funny to an outsider, but it's not remotely in jest -- blood is spilled over such idiocy.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this -- only, you can confidently display a symbol (or use a word) that is important (or inoffensive) to you personally in such a way that only people who want to be offended will be, or you can hide behind that symbol (or word) and allow yourself to be subsumed by the dominant cultural interpretation without showing any evidence of individual thought. Sounds to me like you, Mark, are doing the first -- it's personal to you, and represents part of who you are.

[Leanne]

Kaiser, that's just incredibly sad. People are ignorant arseholes.

[2010kaiser]

If it's any consolation to you, my son collects flags and he's got a Confederate flag on his bedroom roof I don't consider it a symbol of slavery at all. It might surprise you, but people outside the US know that 90% of the reasons for the Civil War were economic and other political factors besides slavery.

I think flags are a bit like words -- it's all about the context and who's using them. Some people can't see past the fact that the censorship bureau and associated grannies tell them "fuck" is a bad word. What they fail to realise is that it's a word with many connotations and significant cultural history -- it can be entirely inoffensive when it's used by someone who uses it in everyday speech, with no intent to offend or shock. It is a conglomeration of sounds, from the vernacular of the Saxon people, a word to set the common man aside from the oppression of an unjust nobility (well, maybe that's taking it a little far, but still... it might be...). But it also has the power to offend and shock if that is its intended use. Certain elements have taken your flag and insisted that it stands for something that offends a great many people, therefore in their hands it has one single connotation that overshadows every other.

In Glasgow Old Firm derbies between the "enemy" football teams Celtic and Rangers, flags are used to rile the opposition -- Celtic fans will carry the Irish tricolour, Rangers fans will aggressively display the Union Jack. Despite the fact that they're all Scottish, just to piss off the Celtic fans the Rangers will sing "God Save the Queen" and be overly English, and the Celtic fans will go nuts with Irish folk songs. This sounds kinda funny to an outsider, but it's not remotely in jest -- blood is spilled over such idiocy.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this -- only, you can confidently display a symbol (or use a word) that is important (or inoffensive) to you personally in such a way that only people who want to be offended will be, or you can hide behind that symbol (or word) and allow yourself to be subsumed by the dominant cultural interpretation without showing any evidence of individual thought. Sounds to me like you, Mark, are doing the first -- it's personal to you, and represents part of who you are.

Leanne. Your an intellectual IMO. Therefore IMO you can see most (but not all) of the sides. I love reading your posts as it always stops me in my tracks and gives me pause for thought.
I'd love, on this particular topic, for you to meet people i know.
History, fact, books, "word of mouth" are, and have always "privvy to the poster"

Hopefully, (never without your permission) i'll pass on this threaded discussion to those whom are more informed than myself.

[Leanne]

I'm just makin' shit up Kaiser Sometimes I'm bound to get lucky and sound like I'm making sense.

[2010kaiser]

I'm just makin' shit up Kaiser Sometimes I'm bound to get lucky and sound like I'm making sense.

Nah!! Your posts are tops!! You move out of the norm IMO and create debate. A solid asset to Rant forum.
'keep on' keepin' on!