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Christian groups sue to stop Kansas schools from adopting science
#1
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/27/ch...standards/

To me this is business as usual for these religious nuts.

From the link: the teaching of science in all of the state’s public schools could create “a hostile learning environment for those of faith.” The institute — which purports to defend “religious freedom, parental rights and other civil liberties” — is challenging the fact that the new science standards do not give equal weight to the Christian creation myth.

Where is the hostility though.. I think these religious buffs are afraid that the kids will learn their story was bullshit all along! I say teach them both ways of thinking, and let them make their own decisions.

What do you think? Do you agree that the teaching of science to those of faith (which was me when I was in school, I didn't learn to drop the religion until much later....)is a mistake?? I was able to juggle both, but to be honest, I never really cared or knew enough back then this was an issue... I think we never give kids credit for learning/adapting to changes when they need to . Hell, they're being charged with child porn for fucking around with iphones they think of as toys!, but that's another issue...
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#2
I would've expected this behavior from Texas rather than Kansas. Then again, in Kansas they believe in wizards and emerald cities.
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#3
Does this mean that it now becomes Kansas' turn to hold a Scopes Monkey Trial?
And here I thought America had matured past that point.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
- Robert A. Heinlein
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#4
I feel that both ideas should be taught, and as LZA shared ... let the kids decide for themselves which is bullshit.
As for myself I believe in creationism, and a Creator ... for all the worlds beauty and wonder and the majesty of the universe to have just happened is too impossible for me to believe.
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#5
(09-28-2013, 02:55 PM)kath3 Wrote: I feel that both ideas should be taught, and as LZA shared ... let the kids decide for themselves which is bullshit.
As for myself I believe in creationism, and a Creator ... for all the worlds beauty and wonder and the majesty of the universe to have just happened is too impossible for me to believe.

See, My opinion is always evolving. I think what you think of as a "creator" is the energy in the science itself. It can't be "one man" since there are too many beautiful things out there. Plus, there are black, white, red, yellow, etc men and women. the creator is the everything we see. so it has to be part of the science (I'm sure they are both intertwined somehow...) so in a way, we are all the same...
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#6
(09-28-2013, 02:55 PM)kath3 Wrote: I feel that both ideas should be taught, and as LZA shared ... let the kids decide for themselves which is bullshit.
As for myself I believe in creationism, and a Creator ... for all the worlds beauty and wonder and the majesty of the universe to have just happened is too impossible for me to believe.

(09-28-2013, 03:28 PM)LZA Wrote: See, My opinion is always evolving. I think what you think of as a "creator" is the energy in the science itself.

My opinion is always evolving as well.
Agreed, the "Creator " is the energy behind it all.

(09-28-2013, 03:28 PM)LZA Wrote: It can't be "one man" since there are too many beautiful things out there. Plus, there are black, white, red, yellow, etc men and women. the creator is the everything we see. so it has to be part of the science (I'm sure they are both intertwined somehow...) so in a way, we are all the same...

The Creator is not a man.
"You have never heard his voice nor seen his form. John 5:37

I also believe that they are intertwined to a point ... my idea of evolution is about things that evolve to suit their environment, but only to an extent not an complete metamorphosis. I do not believe that one cell eventually became all that there is both with man and in the animal kingdom.
You Give To The World When You Give Your Best To Somebody Else Hug
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#7
(09-28-2013, 04:01 PM)kath3 Wrote: I also believe

(09-28-2013, 04:01 PM)kath3 Wrote: I do not believe

which is precisely why schools should teach facts instead of beliefs.

think about it like this: if christianity hadn't been the driving force behind the dark ages, can you imagine how far the human race would have advanced?

to be perfectly honest, i see this lawsuit as nothing more than a tantrum being thrown by a group of people that feel persecuted because they aren't as smart as the rest of the general population.
"Yeah. I understand the mechanics of it, shithead. I just don't understand how this is any less retarded than what I'm suggesting." - Kiley; Housebound.
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#8
I don't want to offend anyone, but I don't mind if I do.

I don't think there is a God or Gods in control of anything at all, much less all of creation. I could be wrong. I believe, for the most part, in science to explain the functioning of the universe. Science isn't always right and science makes a lot of unfounded assumptions, especially concerning the beginnings of time and creation and life and consciousness. So science is not a very useful tool when it comes to that aspect of reality. It has a theory of creation, for instance, called the big bang. But that theory breaks down the closer you get to the actual moment of creation and is useless. They have tried all sorts of mathematical trickery (see inflation for one such example) to get it to work and still can't explain exactly what or why it happened, or if it actually happened at all.

My point is, no one knows and probably ever will know where we or the universe as a whole came from, so there is no sense teaching either creationism or a scientific view of creation in a classroom. They are both only guesses that may or may not be true.

I think schools should teach mathematics and the scientific method and move on to other science that is well established and proven without doubt, like basic physics and so on, and leave all the 'creation' business out of it completely. If a student asks 'Where did all this come from?', a teacher should be required to answer 'No one knows.' and that is it.

I never went to church and never had much of a theory of creation taught to me in school either, for that matter. I made up my own mind. I have read the bible and many scientific books and textbooks. I found that in both, there are things that are true and some things that are hyperbole, or outright nonsense. I have an OK background in mathematics and physics too, so I am not just talking out of my ass here.

I am not a religious scholar by any means, but I know enough about the bible and it's history to know that it is a remarkable book, probably the greatest book in history, and one that has changed the world more than any other book that has ever existed. That doesn't mean that every sentence in it is true though either. It was written by humans. Humans who didn't know science or know the basic facts about the universe. Such as the simple fact that the earth was round for God's sake. (no pun intended).

But science has the same drawbacks. It is created, or discovered, or whatever you want to say, by humans too. For the longest time science didn't recognize the fact that the earth was round either. Science is an ever changing landscape. Just because we think we know what the 'truth' is from it's doctrine, doesn't necessarily make it so.

Neither view of creation is correct IMHO. So don't teach either.

If a parent wants to teach their child something at home, they most certainly can and should. There is no actual evidence that one is more or less correct than the other. Though if you don't believe in the God one, you get punished severely! So that may be the one to go along with, since the other one has no punishment involved for nonbelievers. You never know after all.
that those with no rights,
display the right to have no life, to have respect they must accept
a world commiting suicide
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#9
(09-28-2013, 06:24 PM)sporkium Wrote: i see this lawsuit as nothing more than a tantrum being thrown by a group of people that feel persecuted because they aren't as smart as the rest of the general population.

Well said. Smile
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
- Robert A. Heinlein
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#10
(09-28-2013, 06:54 PM)SkinnyP Wrote: I believe, for the most part, in science to explain the functioning of the universe.

Humans who didn't know science or know the basic facts about the universe. Such as the simple fact that the earth was round for God's sake. (no pun intended).

Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
People of the fifteenth century feared sailing because they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth. Yet the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself!


There are other facts that the bible spoke of long before scientists knew of them ....
Job 26:7. "He suspends the earth over nothing" giving account of gravitational force which "suspends" the earth in space "over nothing." These are words were written in about 1500 BC!

Quote > Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is considered the father of oceanography. His daughter was reading a portion of the Bible to him. While listening, he noticed the expression "paths of the sea" in Psalms 8:8. Upon his recovery, Maury took God at his word and went looking for these paths, his discovery of the warm and cold continental currents. His book on oceanography is still considered a basic text on the subject and is still used in universities.

Quote > Job 36:27-28 says, "He (God) draws up the drops of water, which distill into rain from the vapor; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind," which is a statement from 1500 B.C. ---It wasn't until data and measurements were taken all over entire hemispheres of the globe in our modern era that such an understanding of the hydrologic cycle and world air-currents was achieved, once again, the Bible is confirmed as correct.

There is so much more that I'd end up writing a book.

(09-28-2013, 06:54 PM)SkinnyP Wrote: I am not a religious scholar by any means, but I know enough about the bible and it's history to know that it is a remarkable book, probably the greatest book in history, and one that has changed the world more than any other book that has ever existed. That doesn't mean that every sentence in it is true though either. It was written by humans.

Men did not write the bible on their own ... it was God inspired.

Isaiah 55:9. God says (in 700 BC), "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts"

@SkinnyP> your post was well written and non insulting ... thank you!
You Give To The World When You Give Your Best To Somebody Else Hug
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